While reading the post above regarding Karma, i remembered Crowley relating it the the Adjustment card. Once we know we aren’t seperate from the world outside ourselves these concepts won’t be opposed like Fate vs Free-will, one over the other… again equilibrium– what thoughts or actions were committed must be atoned by the opposite reaction with LOVE.

Your comment reminded me of the Serenity prayer:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

I share a similar view of the subject as you do. That is, somewhere between the middle of free-will and fate. In Homer’s Universe, Fate is an independent agent that the gods themselves are also subject to. What’s interesting about the whole thing, if we use the Fortune card as an example, is that free-will, fate and the gods all get a chance to sit on top of the top of the Wheel. They all have power to shape existence.

Your ideas on Karma are something I hadn’t thought about while writing this post . If we take the Fortune card again as an example, then the complete dissolution of all these concepts (free will, fate and the gods) could be attained by seeking the hub of the Wheel. In other words, by remaining at the Wheels axle we escape from the cycle of birth, death and rebirth, which is also, in some senses to escape the influences of fate, free will and the gods.

People who come to me for a Tarot reading have problems, whether or not it’s financial, their daughter in prison, being deported, or any other issue to which they want to know the outcome. When I think about problems I think about obstacles to the human Will. People who come for a Tarot reading have obstacles, whether it is Fate or the gods, they want to know if their ‘Will’ will be successful at some future date. By implication, it has not been successful up until that point.

I think your right to say we all have free-will and that we are all subject to the hand of Fate and the Will of Zeus and the gods. In the Illiad, prophecy is completely interwoven into the story. Take the example of Achilles, he is given a prophecy as to the outcome of going to Troy. If he goes to Troy then he will die but his name and reputation will not. If he doesn’t go then he will live a long and happy life, but after his death, his name will die out and he will be forgotten.

Achilles was given a choice. Is this the purpose of a good Tarot reading?

I’ve pretty much sat on the fence with this subject to be honest, I think a lot of people have, if they were honest with themselves. They may say they have strong beliefs either way, but even they must have questioned their ability to change things over the course of their lifetime.

Your post does a great job in looking at both sides of the debate: Free-Will or Fate; and I love the Greek Myths as the backdrop for your exploration. Though I’m no expert, it is a rich and varied scene to look at a subject that causes a lot of angst amongst many.

For myself, after reading both of your posts now, I’m leaning to the middle, though this time it’s less fence-sitting and more definition of my thoughts. Let me explain:

This is not the only contradictory idea presented in the Illiad. Although Homer often refers to the overriding power of the will of Zeus to determine events, there is also Destiny and Prophecy which stands side by side to Zeus, the gods and human fee-will. On more than one occasion the will of Zeus is defeat by fate. Zeus can predict the future, he can see the deaths of Achilles and the fall of Troy. He could also intervene to prevent, as an example, his sons death, but his wife Hera often reminded him of his duty. Is this a case of maintaining the order of events to prevent chaos?

This paragraph lays out the possibility that we all have Free-Will, and yet when the gods want to play, we are caught up in Fate. Some people seemed destined for greatness, or seemingly spend a lifetime suffering with no obvious explanation – are they victims of Fate, ie, victims of being caught up in the games played by the gods?

It also brings into play another often-used term in this modern day – karma. Is it karma to suffer in this lifetime because of unsavoury deeds we might have been guilty of in a previous life? Are we over-using the term karma in an effort to explain what we cannot? Humanity seems to do that a lot, rightly or wrongly. It makes me wonder though after reading your posts, how much is really karma, and how much is the hand of Fate (or Zeus )

Looking forward to exploring this more, and of course hopefully more posts from you to help me (and others) think about these things logically and with a free mind.

Awesome!