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In this Discussion
- Anna October 2011
- Douglas July 2011
- ivy July 2011
- TarotCharioteer October 2011
- Tracey August 2011
A Tarot community support forum
Reading professionally through on-demand services
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Hey fellow Taroteon peeps! Hope everyone's been enjoying the summer (or winter, depending on which hemisphere you live in, haha!)
So thought I'd throw this out there & see if anyone could offer their perspectives: I've recently taken a big step in my nascent professional reading career and I've recently signed up with a couple of online in-demand reading services, namely Keen and LivePerson. Keen is a phone reading service with an email option, and LivePerson is a live chat messenger & email service, with a phone option. My listing is still Pending with Keen, but if someone goes directly to my Friendly URL or clicks my call button if I turn it on, I can start work regardless - I just don't appear on the listings themselves on the site. On LivePerson, however, today all my listings have been approved, so once I make myself available on their software, I'm good to go! ;)
(Oh and I also laid the foundation for creating my own website/blog & selling my services there - through WordPress and PayPal - but I'm finding that task to be very, very overwhelming and quite frankly, I'm very confused with PayPal - and I consider myself to be computer literate lol! So for now, I'm gonna get my feet wet with LivePerson until I feel comfortable to offer phone readings...and work my way up to doing "live", in person readings.)
I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with those sites, and what their feelings about them are. They do take a pretty hefty commission and connection charges...but I can understand that they have a service to run and an advertising/marketing budget to fund. I don't like that, on LivePerson, it seems that if there's a dispute with the charge for a service already rendered, we, the readers, are responsible for eating that charge. Now that seems to me to be an unfair, thorny issue! So I'm hoping that that doesn't happen often...or does it?
Any ideas or advice, fellow tarotists?
Thanks again guys!
- Vincent :-) -
Hi Vincent,
Congratulations on taking the big leap :)
I have no experience with any of the companies you mention but I do have experience with doing phone readings.They do take a pretty hefty commission and connection charges ... I don't like that, on LivePerson, it seems that if there's a dispute with the charge for a service already rendered, we, the readers, are responsible for eating that charge.
Nature of the beast unfortunately. I worked for a psychic call center type business and I wasn't happy with the amount of work-to-salary ratio that was going on.
However, there is a silver lining - that they find people wanting a Tarot reading. When you do go "face-to-face" you'll find that building up a client base is a constant strain and companies like these do take care of all that for you (as well as all the administration tasks). Having said all that, they do take a large slice of the pie.
As for the actual readings themselves, try and work on your communication skills. It took me years to learn that communication is more important (when reading for money) than reading skill. If you can get a grip on this early on you'll quickly build up repeat business and then your laughing :)
The biggest trick to doing a good phone reading is to slow the reading down. Try and slow down the pace.
The last thing I'd like to say is this: "face-to-face" readings are the easiest. Although they may seem the most intimidating, they are actually the most forgiving environments to read in. I know many people favour email readings but I find them to be the least cost effective because of the amount of time it takes to write them.
I'd recommend building those face-to-face clients early on. It's a good fall back for when you need a break from phone/email readings.
Good luck and let me know how you're getting on. Also, put some links on this thread to help people contact you for a reading ... should they wish. :) -
Hey Douglas! Thanks for the post & the great advice...as I type this right now, I'm officially going on my first 10 minutes "live" on LivePerson. Literally the second I switched myself on, I heard the ring alerting me about a client contacting me - whoa, I wasn't expecting that, lol! Unfortunately, I didn't even get to lay any cards out; I was in the middle of proposing what I'd do with regards to the question (which was about an ex-partner the client was curious about)...they ended the session :( Lol well at least they didn't go through an entire reading, & then tell me it totally sucked & rated me 1 star for my first official rating, haha!
I can't believe "face-to-face" is the easiest! Right now, the thought of doing a bunch of face-to-face readings with total strangers...I suppose when "thrown to the wolves", the fight-or-flight instinct will kick in & you'll "perform", so to speak, but honestly I find that thought to be really, really nerve-wracking lol! (Though I wouldn't be so nervous about face-to-face with acquaintances or friends-of-friends-of friends, however...just knowing someone even a very little bit would lessen the shock, I think.) Are you saying that from the place you are today, with all your experience gained, or did you feel that way even when you were just starting to read professionally? The big advantage I can think of right now in favor of face-to-face is that it seems to me that it would discourage the "just curious" or skeptic clients, whereas going through a on-demand website or phone line, to me you'd get more people chatting/calling "just for kicks"...or am I wrong about that?
Still, I'm really excited (& also pretty nervous, not gonna lie lol!) about this: I'm sitting at my table with my trusty Haindl, Thoth & Albano Waite decks ready to go - wish me luck guys! :) -
Oh & to check me out on LivePerson.com...
Please click here for my expert profile on LivePerson.
I hope that link works - it should take you to my Tarot Reading profile.
Thanks Douglas! ;) -
Hi Vincent,
Initially I thought that email readings would be easiest, followed by phone readings and that face-to-face readings would be the hardest :)
I was wrong. Phone readings are the hardest. They demand a certain method of communication that is not required when doing face-to-face readings. Phone readings are also the least forgiving.
If someone calls you up and you're not answering their question in a way they want, they hang up and call someone else. It's because they can call another reader immediately that phone readings are more challenging.
However, in a 'face-to-face' reading, because they can't simply hang-up they are more willing to give you a chance. They are far more forgiving and far more willing to participate in the reading.
People that call you up don't know who you're and many of them expect some sort of psychic ability - or an ability to speak to Spirits. There are many challenges like this which happen more frequently doing phone readings than doing 'face-to-face' readings.
Having said all that, it doesn't take long before you learn how to read on the phones. But once you've spent some time reading on the phone lines and then get an opportunity to read 'face-to-face', you'll notice the difference :D
Good luck :) -
Hey Douglas - yeah, I think I see what you're saying. Definitely true that the huge selection available on the on-demand sites makes it a lot easier for clients to "shop around" or even try to "game the system" in terms of trying to get something for free, or "threatening" with their ratings. There are expert forums on LivePerson, & those are issues that are brought up among experienced experts there.
Do you get a lot of questions about love, infatuation, relationships, heartbreak, etc.? It seems to me the biggest issue on clients' minds. I've been practicing with non-positional spreads, i.e. the Opening of the Key 1st Operation & Waite's "Alternative Method" (that's how I refer to it, the Alternative Method lol)...but it seems to me those types of readings cover too much ground to be of use to specific love questions...or am I wrong? I remember reading some articles of yours where you say you usually read with non-positional spreads...any advice on how to tailor them to love-type questions?
I'm finding - in my practice, at least - that I actually like reading a bunch of cards rather than just a few. I don't know, for me, having a lot of cards makes me more confident of my story/narrative. Like what you infer from the cards can be "backed up" more surely since there are a ton of cards on the table, whereas if it's just a 3-5 card reading...I feel my intuition doesn't flow as easily & I get stuck in the rut of combining my keywords/key ideas (& elements), but without being as sure of which one applies. Lol I feel like that sounds ridiculous as it seems most people new to Tarot feel the opposite, but that's the way it is for me. Like for example, I really like this spread called The Romany Spread with 3 rows of 7 cards each - and it can be read horizontally (1 row past, 1 row present, 1 row future) & vertically (7 columns of different aspects of life)...and having a bunch of cards makes it easier for me to be "sure".
But for paid on-demand readings, it seems like having a bunch of cards doesn't work well for the kind of readings & questions/answers clients seek. I'd love to hear your - or anyone's - suggestions and tips on this.
Thank you in advance-
Vincent, aka The Tarot Charioteer ;) -
Ok I just got done doing my very first pro reading (on LivePerson, through live chat & email)...AND IT WAS A SUCCESS!!!!!! My client was great and she left me awesome feedback!!! Oh my god I'm so thrilled right now, I should post a picture of me: I have this enormous smile on my face and I feel like I wanna cry from joy lol, I am so happy right now!!! :*)
I know that readings won't all be so awesome and that there will be clients who hate me or think I'm full of sh*t or don't know anything or whatever the case may be...but I have to say, having this first paid one go so well...I feel soooooo good right now!!!! I needed that to put me at ease, to help me overcome my anxiety/nervousness/self-doubt. It makes me want to do more practice readings, read more books, get more advice from people - I am PUMPED!!!!!!! :)
Ok, enough ranting from Vincey lol! ;) Just wanted to share that haha! :) Pardon my sounding totally nutty, but I just feel so damn GOOOOOD and wanted to spread the joy around!!!! :) -
Thank you so much, Ivy!!! I'm still basking in the afterglow lol ;)
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Hey fellow Tarot Eon-ers! :) Thought I'd give a little update on my nascent reading career!
So...I've realized that most people come to readers regarding matters of the heart <3 I don't know how it is for the rest of you - and of course, I'm only still beginning - but the overwhelming majority of my readings...I'd even venture so far as all but three of them lol!...they've been about love/relationships in some form. Wondering what you guys' experience has been?<br />
Also, at least on the on-demand site I work for - LivePerson / Kasamba - most people want fast readings: I don't do many long sessions, and to be honest, I always feel a bit of pressure to get things out as fast as I can, type as fast as I can! (Which can be an issue if you get a little nervous like me, and are a fast typer, because with the LivePerson chat suite, your words appear instantly on the other person's screen as you type them!) In a sense, that bit of nervous energy works in my favor, as I've always been a person who gets EXTREMELY nervous/anxious before having to do something important...but once the time comes, something switches on in me, and it flows. But I feel like my readings have been, literally, like a TelePrompTer lol! I try and get as much of my interpretations out there as fast as possible, so as to make sure the client doesn't feel I'm wasting his or her money. I wish I felt more comfortable with going slower, and letting the intuitive juices flow more. There have been a few times where, after closing out a session with a client, I'd be looking at the cards I laid out, and see something I wish I would've told him/her. So that's big area I need to work on...wondering what you guys think?
Also, because of the time constraint, a big number of cards isn't really feasible lol! I'm finding that most of the time, I use between 3-7, at most up to 15, cards during a live session. I've done a couple of paid email readings, though, with 21 cards. But for live sessions, I'm finding out that if I elect to use more cards, more often than not we'll end up getting cut off, so I'm mostly doing 3-5 and going deep into those 3-5 cards, rather than a cursory overview of 15-21.
Anyways, one thing's for sure: I am loving this!!! I get so much joy doing this type of work, and it's humbling to think that you're in the position to possibly make someone feel better. This has been one of the best decisions I've made in these past few years, so thanks Douglas! :)
All right, hope everyone's enjoying the weekend-
Vincent aka TC :-) -
Hi Vincent, it puts a smile on my dial reading about your journey, so I am enjoying the progress updates :) Hmm, had suspected relationships were the predominant agenda - so do you feel able to give each client some individual empathy (if that's the appropriate phrase) or do they all start to sound the same? Or perhaps everyone's situations are different enough to still be interesting? Must be if you're having such a good time.
It strikes me that your lightening quick responses will likely often be correct, so I wouldn't stress if you later have further details emerge... they're paying for a quick read so it's just a nice bonus for your own progress to have a bit more depth come through when you've time to mull things over. However, I do journal my readings (friends and acquaintances for now) and sometimes I give them follow-up, but really, I limit that since most of them gain mostly from what's conveyed at the actual time of the reading, and they aren't thinking as much as you are about those details afterwards - in a way, unless it's really important, I somehow feel it weakens the reading to have it come out in dribs and drabs. I guess my point is, enjoy the benefit that deliberation gives you, but I wouldn't worry that it should've been communicated at the time of the actual reading. Those ponderings will no doubt improve your readings for clients over time too, so they will benefit in time.
I do have it in my mind to at some stage read professionally. One hurdle I know I will need to overcome is my own opionatedness (nice invented word ;-) )... which I was acutely aware of when recently reading for people that were in "complicated" relationships!! It was another reminder that I can subject a friend to my frank point of view but when it comes to a paying client, it's all about them - am working on an "attitude adjustment" O:) hahaha
Tracey -
Hey Tracey! Thanks for the awesome reply :)
First of all, if I've "gone pro", you for sure should! It's a really easy process to get started on an on-demand site like LivePerson (if you'd prefer live chat) or Keen (if you'd prefer phone). Right now I'm only able to devote myself part-time to it (actually, less than part time), but I'm loving it so much (& dislike my actual 9-to-5 job so much lol) that I eventually want to "switch" the two ;)
I don't mind the love/relationship focus - I can see how it would be one of the most pressing & hard to anticipate areas of people's lives. Maybe long-time pros would say differently, but I still find it awesome to be paid for doing something I enjoy :) I just wish I'd have "prepared" myself better for that focus: e.g., doing more practice readings on love questions rather than general overviews. Something I'm toying with is adapting the Opening of the Key Spread in a way that would be conducive to my readings- that is, shorter readings where you need to work relatively fast. I've devised a variation on the 21-card Romany Spread I'd like to try out as well :)
I have to admit, I'm horrible at keeping a journal of spreads I do! I do keep a tarot journal, though, so I really should start journaling my spreads/readings. Every Tarot book advises on keeping a journal of your Tarot activities...but frankly, I'm not one to do workbook exercises; I'm a more abstract/theory learner who absorbs information best by reading, and then applying it in my own way. (I'm thinking here of, for example, Mary Greer's books- I recently finished 21 Ways to Read a Tarot Card and though there are tons of exercises in it, I felt I got so much out of it just by reading the book and applying the info in my own way to my practice.)
Anyways, I'm going off on tangents galore here lol! :) Thank you again Tracey for your awesome reply - and definitely go pro!!! I don't know about others, but ever since officially going pro, my readings feel different now, and in a good way ;)
- Vincent aka TC ;) -
Thanks for the encouragement! All in good time - apart from feeling that I want to improve more first, my mojo is not very consistent lately :-? and have a few other practicalities to sort out. Sigh.
Re. journaling - I manage it on my own because it's part of the thinking process, but when I'm with someone else I tend to only scrawl the names of the cards, generally without interpretations, because I'm bored of it by the time I've actually given the reading verbally!
:-D Keep up the updates.
Tracey -
Hello Vincent. Congratulations on doing what you love.
I do my readings face to face and I love it. I agree with Douglas that when reading face to face it is easier to get the client to collaborate, which in my humble opinion is a great way to interact. Reading on the phone is fine for me, but I only do it for clients I already know who are far away. I have done a few readings by e-mail and they were the hardest. I found them time consuming and I missed the interaction.
Most of my clients ask about love, work or troubled relations with friends or relatives.
I find that 6 cards can tell plenty about a relationship. One I like to use is in a cross shape. Top of the center line is the past, middle is the present, bottom is the future (3 to 6 months). To the right is the pro of the relation, to the left is the challenge or weakness and to the lower right an advice to the client.
The first few times I read face to face for strangers I was very nervous, but it gets easier. Taking time to ground myself before a reading helps me, as well as taking my time to formulate the question or decide which spread to use. Once I start reading I go fast so that I don't second guess myself or break the flow of information.
I hope this helps.
Anna -
Hey fellow TarotEon peeps! It's been a couple of months since I've posted here- hope everyone's doing well & enjoyed the summer. (I for one always look forward to autumn and the end of the intense summer heat/humidity!)
Thank you so much, Anna, for sharing that 6-card relationship spread with me! I actually used it just right now...literally, just got done doing a reading about 5 minutes ago - and it worked really, really well! The cards really flowed well together, and I found that the positions worked naturally, i.e. even if I didn't refer to the actual positions you listed, the "story" of the reading worked out the same way! And I totally agree: 6 cards work great for a relationship reading. They provided just enough cards to have some verification in the reading, yet didn't bog down the reading with too many "loose parts", so to speak. Definitely gonna keep this one in my mental file for my readings to come! :)
I actually had to take a break from doing paid readings online for what turned out to be a little more than a month & a half. Familial obligations that came up unexpectedly...sometimes life throws us curveballs & we just have to adapt, lol! But this past week & a half, I've (finally!) returned to doing paid readings again, still on LivePerson & Keen. I consider myself very lucky & blessed because my "return to work", so to speak, went really, really well. Totally opposite of what I had feared, I did get some clients & wasn't totally dead...and even had the pleasant surprise of having a client who was referred to me by another reader! Also, I had my very first "repeat clients" this past week, and to top it off, that client that was a referral has become a repeat customer!
Coming back online & back to doing online readings has been awesome, and it's only further vindicated my feeling that this is a path I definitely want to continue on...and in fact, the period in which I wasn't doing them only made me miss doing them even more!
Though I wasn't doing readings, I still continued to study Tarot- read books, do personal readings/free readings for people, and refine the craft. I think one of my weak points is being concise, and I think I'm slowly getting better & whittling down my readings & not going off on tangents/meandering so much. Especially with on-demand sites, I always feel that clients want us to read super, super fast & not waste their time/money (as opposed to, I guess, email readings or face-to-face readings booked for a set length of time).
Also, I had my first client on Keen in the week I've returned; actually, it was the referral I mentioned above, and ironically, it was my very first client when I came back. We used the chat program on Keen, and I find that it works well! I think I'd like to try & promote myself on that site, just so I don't have all my "eggs in one basket", so to speak. I still don't do phone readings - only chat & email - and honestly still feel too anxious/nervous to try them. I feel that I write much, much better than when I speak, and the act of typing my words aids me in expressing myself more clearly...whereas when I talk on the phone, I trip over my words, talk too fast, and too quietly! In fact, I think, at this point, I'd much prefer to do face-to-face readings over phone readings!
What do you guys think of this: to try & promote myself on Keen, I've offered to give 3 free minutes on a client's first chat reading with me on Keen...does that sound like a good promotion?
Anyways, hope everyone's doing great, and a thank you again to Anna for the spread, and a hey what's up to Douglas :)
Many blessings & success-
Vincent aka T.C. :-) -
Hello Vincent. I am glad the spread is working well for you. I did not come up with it, but I use it a lot.
Anna
